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 jazzonfilm |
Resonator Tremolo? |
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Posts: 1 (11/26/08 16:50:13) |
Realizing this is probably structurally impossible...Does anyone know of an aftermarket Tremolo system that could be used on a Resonator? It seems like a very
intriguing idea, I play Jazz Fingerstyle on Resonator and have often thought of the tonal possibilities.
Thanks Much. |
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Paul Kucharski |
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Posts: 1022 (11/27/08 08:04:32) |
None that I've ever heard of. It would be very tough to do using the typical approach since you need to keep the bridge in tight contact with the cones to
get sound, yet need a way to move the bridge/saddle to modulate the string tension. To accomplish both goals, you'd need a system that rocks the entire
cone, bridge, and saddle. That would be a pretty expensive mechanism. If one ever is developed, it's probably patentable.
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 2 (11/27/08 12:26:41) |
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 3 (12/21/08 14:35:23) |
Sorry, I guess my comment didn't post. In a simple Bigsby style Tremolo where the string tension pull and release creates the vibrato, do you think if it
were mounted without any alteration of the cone or spider / biscuit, that it could function properly? Am I missing something really obvious?
Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Paul Kucharski |
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Posts: 1025 (12/23/08 08:25:22) |
Actually in thinking about it some more, the place to build such a mechanism would be in the tailpiece. All resonators use a tailpiece to hold the ball end of
the strings and the strings rest on the bridge/cones like an archtop. So a tremolo mechanism in the tailpiece could work nicely there and wouldn't impact
the cones to any great extent. So actually in retrospect I think it's quite feasible to have a tremolo on a resonator. You just need to find someone
willing to design it and build it into one.
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 4 (12/23/08 12:25:11) |
Yes, the tailpiece approach is what I've decided would have the least amount of impact on the bridge / cone. I also think that designing it as a surface
mount rather then internal springs would be desirable as well,. Again, the basic Bigsby design or a knock off where the tremolo mechanism is a self contained
tailpiece vibrato would make sense. Similar to a Bigsby B5 with the tension bar for ample string angle to the bridge. The tail end block would need to be
beefed up to allow the secure mounting of the tailpiece/tremolo through the top as well as ideally an addition of a tail mount in the strap button area similar
to a Bigsby B7 for releaving the stress from the top mount.
The B5 with these alterations in a shortend version seems to make sense. Any other ideas? Thanks for helping me stumble through this. Ha |
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 5 (12/27/08 13:49:32) |
Well, I figured I would post the steps of my progress as I try my first prototype of a resonator tremolo. After looking at various tremolo systems, I decided
on the Bigsby B5 model. With some modifications, pretty sure I can make this work. There are four mounting holes in the B5, two at the tail end, one towards
the bass side of the bridge and the fourth one below the tremolo arm on the treble side of the bridge. I am going to beef up the tail end block. The block
that is currently in the instrument is almost exactly the correct surface space dimension to mount the two screws for the end block however I will feel more
comfortable by building up the sides and front of the block with three pieces of wood, one on each side and one on the front of the block. Hopefully this adds
to the mass and will be a bit more stout to accept these two mounting screws. This is a bit difficult to get to as the sound hole ring of course is in the way
to easily access the end block. There are however holes cut in the sound ring and there are two in a convenient location to access the block by turning the
pieces of wood sideways then pushing them through the holes, standing them upright and gluing them into place. I think a modified c-clamp will work to hold
them in place for the glue to set up.
The other two mounting holes for the B5 will need to be mounted to the coverplate. To do this, I need to back the coverplate for more rigidity when bolting the B5 in place. I have made a template out of cardboard of the space I want to reinforce on the underside of the cover plate. It's kind of a 3/4 moon shape and when spot welded into place on the coverplate will block the series of soundholes in the bottom 1/4 of the coverplate giving me adequate area for the B5 mounting holes. I will then put the coverplate in place, mark and drill my mounting hole locations for the B5 and then have the metal shop weld two nuts in the underside of the coverplate / reinforcement plate to accommodate the two mounting screws. My thought is by doing so, I can easily remove the coverplate multiple times without compromising the integrity of the mounting holes. Another modification will be to replace the tension rod on the B5 with a larger diameter rod. The one that comes on the B5 doesn't give me enough angle from the tailpiece to the bridge so the larger diameter rod should take care of that issue. Other modifications such as extending the tremolo arm and experimenting with different spring tensions should be relatively easy. Any thoughts you all may have are definitely welcome. I'll stay in touch with the progress Thanks |
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 6 (01/01/09 15:02:26) |
Let's see, so far I have reinforced the tail endblock for a stouter base to attach the B5 to. Reinforced the coverplate then drilled holes and spot welded
nuts in place to accept the two mounting locations on the B5. Next is to machine a larger diameter tension bar for the B5 as I'm not getting enough angle
of strings to bridge. Hopefully be stringing it up tomorrow and I'll post how it goes.
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Paul Kucharski |
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Posts: 1030 (01/03/09 08:03:04) |
What resonator are you doing this on?
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 7 (01/03/09 11:14:07) |
EUREKA!! It works! This modification was done on a 1993 Regal round neck spider cutaway. I was fortunate to not have to modify the tension bar, turns out
once in place, there was enough angle to the bridge. This however would be a simple fix. I was simply going to install a larger diameter rod over the
existing tension rod and keep the original mechanism in place. Not necessary in this situation. Fun learning experience and I'm anxious to make some
modifications on the next one. Time will tell how this modification will effect the instrument. Particularly the bridge and cone. I'm confident that the
tremolo tailpiece is securely attached and the instrument actually has a more solid feel to it especially from the bridge / tailpiece area. Less minor
vibration, more solid. The amount of pitch bend I'm getting is less then desirable, about 1 step. I would like to increase this and will experiment with
different spring heights and tension but it seems as though, due to its design, the Bigsby has a very definite amount of travel and other then gearing it in
some way I think you get what you get. I'm ultimately going to design my own tremolo and base it on kind of the Bigsby and the old Gibson Maestro Vibrato.
The goal being a more flexible amount of movement and keeping the entire mechinism below the coverplate where no modification to the coverplate is necessary.
Anyway, this first attempt is very functional and encouraging, mostly for the possibilities it has opend up. I can try and post a pic. if anyone is interested. I'll post when working on the new design. |
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Paul Kucharski |
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Posts: 1033 (01/04/09 13:05:20) |
I would like to see a picture if have one. Or even a YouTube video describing the thing. But if you plan to patent anything you do, you may not want to provide
too much information until the patent is submitted.
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 8 (01/04/09 16:53:37) |
I'll post a few pics next week. Coincidentally, I have a college friend of mine who worked in my guitar shop back in the 70's who recently went
through the patent process on a 5 position tone set up for electric guitar as well as a variation on the strat style tremolo. The process has taken off and on
3 years for him to move forward with it however he has some very unique and innovative ideas that he deserves patents on. So far I'm not seeing much that
is patentable in my design other then the fact that my final product should work as a tremolo system on either acoustic or resonator guitars. If I do decide
to approach this as a "kit-able" product, I will look more closely at which parts of the design would be patentable. With the amount of interest on
this board other then Paul, there doesn't seem to be much. Ha.
Anyway watch for the availibility of the "DOBRATO" in a guitar shop near you! |
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Paul Kucharski |
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Posts: 1034 (01/05/09 08:43:06) |
I know what you mean about how long it takes to get a patent awarded. In my work as an engineer, our patent submissions usually take 4 years to go through.
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jazzonfilm |
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Posts: 9 (01/05/09 11:25:25) |
Yes,very slow. My business is Electrical Design and while this is a constantly evolving industry, the pace in which this happens forces myself and others to
bring a product to market without the patent process as whatever benefits your product may have will likely be improved on in a very short time frame.
I did have the opportunity to play with the tremolo over the weekend and my original thought of more travel on the pitch bend is actually not necessary. I found simple vibrato with a 1/2 to full step range is suitable. I'm not trying to do "dive-bomb" type effects so in short, the vibrato accomplishes what I intended it for. |
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